It’s been three decades since the serial kidnapper, rapist and presumed child killer known as Mr Cruel terrorised Melbourne.
Mr Cruel is believed to be responsible for as many as 12 attacks on women and children in Melbourne since the mid 1980s, including the rape of an 11 year old girl in Lower Plenty in 1987, the abduction of Sharon Wills in Ringwood in 1988, the abduction of Nicola Lynas in Canterbury in 1990 and the abduction and murder of Karmein Chan in 1991.
To this day Melbourne’s most notorious child predator still hasn’t paid for his crimes.
Mr Cruel Profile
However, while we do not yet know Mr Cruel’s name, there is plenty we do know about him based on the physical evidence he left at the crime-scenes and the eyewitness accounts of his victims.
Here’s what we know:
- Mr Cruel had forensic knowledge
Mr Cruel went to great lengths to avoid leaving behind any forensic evidence that detectives could use to catch him. It has therefore been suggested that perhaps he had some level of forensic knowledge.
- Bathed two victims to remove DNA evidence and wiped sinks and benchtops to remove fingerprints
- Transported victim to release site in garbage bags
- Made victims brush teeth and clean nails
- Left no DNA at crime scenes or on victims
- Told Nicola Lynas “you will be taken to a hospital and they will test you you will be examined by a police surgeon. They’ll be looking for evidence to link me to you and they won’t find anything.”1
2. Mr Cruel had access to property under flight path
It is believed the perpetrator had access to a property which was located under one of the two main flight paths into Tullamarine Airport.
- Both Sharon Wills and Nicola Lynas heard planes landing while in captivity. Nicola Lynas told detectives she could hear the planes banking after they passed over her.
- An investigation into flights operating that day determined the likely location of the property as under either the Tullamarine east-west or north-south flight paths.2
- Spectrum Taskforce Head David Sprague said that based on how loud the planes were, they might have been just 400m above the house.
- Police searched 30,000 houses in 15 suburbs including Coolaroo, East Keilor, Niddrie and Westmeadows without luck
3. Mr Cruel followed media about his crimes
- Watched Lynas family press conference with Nicola and spoke to her about it, saying “Think you’re worth $25,000?”
- Went out to buy the Sun and seemed to enjoy the stories about his crimes and the parallels being drawn to other abductions
- Photos of at least two of Mr Cruel’s victims appeared in newspaper articles in the leadup to their attack.
4. Mr Cruel probably videotaped his victims
- Sharon saw a wooden tripod at the foot of the bed she was held in
5. Mr Cruel used red herrings
- Pretended to talk to an accomplice during Lynas abduction
- Pretended to be seeking $25,000 ransom during Lynas abduction
- Pretended to make a phone call during Lower Plenty home invasion
- Pretended to be looking for money during Lower Plenty, Wills and Lynas attack
- Spraypainted Chan’s car with words ‘Pay-back Asian drug dealer. More anon. More to come.’
6. Mr Cruel listened to radio
- Left radio on 3TT throughout Wills attack
- Played KZFM in his car during Lynas attack, and had radio on in his bedroom
- Brought in radio and tuned it to 3KZ in Lower Plenty attack to mask sounds of attack
7. Mr Cruel’s lifestyle gave him freedom of movement at certain times
- Slept in until 10am during the Lynas attack on a Wednesday morning in July 1990
- Was unshaven during Lower Plenty attack in August 1987
- Abductions of Sharon Wills, Nicola Lynas and Karmein Chan occurred in or leading up to school holidays
- Was able to conduct extensive stalking and surveillance in the lead up to his attacks
8. Mr Cruel’s language
- Used terms “bozo” “worry wart” “yous” and “missy” to his victims.
- Lower Plenty victim and Lynas described his voice as ‘deep’ ‘gruff’ ‘uneducated’
- Wills family described him as ‘no accent, well spoken, fluent English’ suggesting that he was Australian
- “You’re not going to be a hero are you?” to John Wills, “Think you’re worth $25,000?” to Nicola Lynas; “Do you feel brave?” to Lower Plenty victims
9. Mr Cruel could tie knots
- Knots used by sailors, truck drivers, farmers and fishermen.
- Was confident enough in his knots to leave adult victims tied up in other rooms
- Apparently was able to tie knots while wearing gloves
10. Mr Cruel almost certainly had prior criminal or tactical experience
- Controlled multiple adult victims in Wills and Lower Plenty attacks
- Cut phone lines
- Always parked car around corner or in front of vacant blocks to avoid detection
- Entered via various means: removing window pane with knife, forcing roll-out window, pushing key through lock
- Had weapons and handcuffs
- Carried a kit containing housebreaking implements and restraints3
- Evidence of planning suggests offender spent time conducting reconnaissance and surveillance on his victims.4
11. Mr Cruel possessed a gun
- Lower Plenty family described his gun as a small black pistol-style handgun.
- Wills family described a dark-coloured handgun with a square grip, a squarish barrel with a silver bit at the end, possibly a pistol.
- The Lynas sisters described the gun as a gun with a silver barrel and a brown wooden handle.
- Karmein Chan was shot with either a .22 calibre weapon (according to Andrew Rule and John Silvester in The Age in Sep 1999) or a .38 calibre weapon (according to the Herald Sun in May 1992)
12. Mr Cruel’s physical appearance
- Mr Cruel went to extraordinary lengths to ensure he was not seen by his victims and descriptions varied
- Lower Plenty description: aged mid 20s. Australian. 178cm to 183cm tall, slim to medium build with brown, greyish/white hair with white spots in it. Greyish/white bushy eyebrows. Unshaven, with a couple of days growth. Oval face, soft hands, possibly right handed. Wearing blue denim jeans, good condition, close fitting, a brown tweed sports jacket, a blue nylon waterproofed zip up jacket, blue runners with white flashes down the side, white soles in good condition and white cotton socks. Navy blue balaclava with an open face and some type of material covering the eye area. Dishwashing or surgical gloves light in colour, possibly yellow.5
- Wills attack description: Australian. 173cm to 180cms tall, thin to medium build. Had either a moustache or whiskers, possibly an early beard growth. Aged mid 20s to 30s. Right-handed. Hairy chest. Wearing a dark coloured boiler suit, gloves and a dark coloured ski mask or balaclava which had eye and mouth holes and white stitching around the eye and mouth holes, possibly with red stitching as well.6
- Lynas attack description: just under 170cm (though Nicola’s sister estimated his height at 182cm), well built, slightly big stomach, like a beer belly. No body odour; hands felt hairy with rough skin and shortish fingernails; arms were quite solid and stocky with fine hair; that he had fine hair on his chest and no hair on his back.7
13. Mr Cruel took trophies from his victims
Mr Cruel stole several distinctive items from victims including:
- Ecuadorean Shirt Company parka with fake black fur collar
- a gold diamond engagement ring with the number 4132 stamped inside
- classic gold record set by London Philharmonic Orchestra
- Rosemary Lynas’ driver’s licence, Medicare card and credit card
- Ken Done beach bag
- A PLC summer uniform, tracksuit pants and school jumper
- A Melbourne football club beanie
14. Mr Cruel’s car
During the Dec 1988 and July 1990 abductions of Sharon Wills and Nicola Lynas, Mr Cruel transported his victims in a car:
- It was a four-door vehicle with carpeted floor, bucket seats, a low glove box and a floor gear shift
- The vehicle smelt clean but sounded old and he had trouble starting it
- The floor carpet, front door, arm rest and press down lock were all cream coloured
- He told both girls the car was stolen, which may suggest the car was not in fact stolen
- On the night Sharon was released, a White Commodore Vacationer sedan with three blue stripes along the side was seen acting suspiciously nearby
- Three independent witnesses have reported seeing a ‘van’ near Karmein Chan’s house, and a ‘ute’ or ‘truck’ where her remains were discovered – NB these sightings have not been verified by police
15. Familiarity with certain areas in Eastern and Northern suburbs
Mr Cruel left his victims in secluded locations, that he must have been familiar with. It is likely that he had previously lived, worked, or visited these locations at some point.
- Bayswater Secondary College, near Dandenong Creek
- Thomastown terminal station, near Edgars Creek
FBI Profile of Mr Cruel
On 24 April 1991, the FBI provided the following profile of Mr Cruel to Victoria police based on their ‘research and investigative experience in similar cases’:
- he may reside or work in proximity to his first and last known attacks i.e. Lower Plenty, Templestowe.
- he is likely to be employed or involved with a school due to the use of school uniforms and timing in school holidays (though NB the Lower Plenty attack and abduction of Nicola Lynas did not occur during Victorian school holidays)
- he will appear genuinely dedicated to students and this may have been recognised with awards which seem to make him above suspicion
- he will have kept home-made pornography including of his victims
- he is a functional individual with steady employment, is generally regarded as a good neighbour, polite, quiet, somewhat introverted, and may be involved in community projects
- if he has a partner they will have been away during the time of his attacks and will know of his sexual dysfunctions, use of pornography and schoolgirl uniforms etc.
- those around him may have noticed changes in behaviour during and after attacks, including uncharacteristic use of alcohol, interest in religion, missing work or appearing distant and preoccupied
The FBI profile was criticised by forensic psychologist Ian Joblin and other local experts as simplistic and potentially off target at the time of its public release in April 1992.
References
- According to a detective who worked closely with the victim. Shocking Australian True Crime Stories, Paul Anderson
- ‘Infiltration: The True Story Of The Man Who Cracked The Mafia’, p 129, Colin McLaren
- Spectrum Task Force Special Circular 12 August 1991
- “
- ‘Victoria Police and FBI dossier on shocking Mr Cruel child attacks’ Herald Sun Keith Moor, April 8, 2016
- “
- “
Who is Mr Cruel? 
Could Mr. Cruel be Peter Scully, or is the timeline wrong?
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His name is thrown up from time to time. As far as I know there is nothing to rule him out, but he’s just one of hundreds of paedophiles who lived in Melbourne at the time. You could look up his address at the State Library to see where he was living.
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he’s more than just a pedophile don’t down play this
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ok every body listen i have some information about mr.cruel: mr. cruel now is have 70 years old born in 1952 and he have 12 crimes but the last with that girl was found death is not the same person, hes last 4 crimes, explain:1 crime per year, but in 1 year is making his target and the plan his plan was making in airservices Australia Melbourne. On his notebook or something and probely is in another continent
in asia: 46% australia:67% europe:78% USA:89%. Please take this information and realpy me btw im not good at english pls no hate.
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Creaul is Australian he went to lakeside high school he married his wife he was separated at the time of all these offences he killed his wife an had two sons and now in prison for25 years.
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Ok man contact Australian embassy where you are dead set they will put you in touch with someone.
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I definitely think it was Peter Scully! I’ve been doing research and the timeline lines up with Scullys age, description, everything.
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That can’t be he’s a different age doesn’t look like the description and he’s in jail
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No Scully had way more confirmed victims than Cruel did.
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Only thing with Scully is that he’s incredibly tall; it seems he’s about 6’2″-6’4″ in his mugshot. I know height can be misrepresented but I feel like that would have been noticed. Other than that, it’s creepy how well he fits the profile.
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Peter Scully seems to be to tall as Mr.Cruel was described to be 5’8 to 6’0
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It was one of the great bookie robbers, he died in a Melbourne airport robbery in 92 can’t Ren his name norm Lee or norm Allen something like that,strange coincidence that their was no more attacks
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Ian bassett maybe?
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His in his 60s white hair in jail for murder police know who creul is all they need to do they know the safe house they need to get a warrant look behind the garage brick wall l feel they find the equipment he had used he has two sons.
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The problem with Scully is that he’s about 6ft 3ins, which is probably way too tall for the offender. No one ever accused Mr Cruel of being over 6 foot.
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DUDEEEEEE LITERALLY
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i think its moorabin airport and that he burgles his intended victims homes before and gets his access ready and likely places a listening device…
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maybe, especially cuz moorabin airport is in a pretty quietish area
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yep and ive delivered to there and even though the planes are small when they fly over they sound huge…
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Could mr cruel safe house be home of friend or relative on holiday, cause attacks are close to school holidays
I’m
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If he is as meticulous about his surveillance and care around removing forensic evidence suggests, then driving an older vehicle that he has trouble starting shows unusual lack of care inconsistent with all that. Suggestion- it could be car of someone who does not drive much so battery loses charge or it isn’t serviced as much. That could be an older person’s car or someone with disability or health issues minimising car trips so eg battery splutters or starts to go flat or fuel slow to uptake – specifically an old woman who may not have skills or strength or training to service her old car or a widow whose husband no longer around to take care of it. Or old or disabled man without mechanical skills or current ability to maintai n vehicle. School holiday timing suggests safe house and car could belong to older person like that who goes away to stay with family or friends around school holidays or is put into sometime of care during those times. Any cross checks with respite care agencies for older or a disabled person put into care around the dates of the abductions? Cross reference any owners of the type of car referred to registered within the target GPS zone and specifically, any such cars disposed of or not re-registered after the last known use of it. The older owner could have gone into full time care or died. Their death could be another possible explanation for why attacks seemed to stop. If eg the presence of or need to care for elderly and/or disabled person came to an end the house may need to be sold as well to fund full time care or distribute assets under a Will to beneficiaries if they died. Any deceased estates sold or changed hands under a Will in the target area after the last attack? If the perpetrator had onerous responsibility for caring for an elderly or disabled person excepting around school holidays, that may have cramped their ability to pursue their own relationship, warped their sexual development so they remained fixated on girls age around the age they were when their sexuality budded but was somehow blocked by other life events eg sick parent or widowed parent. The interest is schools, school uniforms and specifically PLC – more than a mere fetish. It connotes aspiration to be around or be attracted to upper class girls. They may be seen as nicer, more polite or better catches?
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Gps wasn’t around then 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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I just had an epiphany while reading this…The recent 60 Minutes Australia episode made extensive note of the Electrical Substations being used in reference to his abduction and drop-off points (including the burial site of Karmein Chan), BUT- the FBI profile seems to share the idea of him being associated with a school. What if both were true: if Mr. Cruel is an electrical worker and his wife/partner was a schoolteacher. That would make perfect sense. Anyone else believe this makes perfect sense? (The school holidays would be “good” times for the abductions because the wife would have time off to take a vacation/holiday, and the students/girls would most likely be at home when he broke in)
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i just don’t think he would risk doing anything associated with his work as he would increase the risk of getting caught… i doubt he has any connection to the sub stations and after hearing of the faked call where he threatens another family i feel he has a connection to the parents somehow..
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If. U think.you know this person how do U report themQa
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Car was stolen from a crime he committed in Brunswick murder of two old retiree then he dumb the car
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Police need to look where the the ritiree VK commodore was found and see how far the trai station is look on the public transportation and they may find creaul on it paulino they may prove he may been the murder in the case in brunswick
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I know who this guy is … I just got released from prison myself and he is currently in prison. He is 74yo and lived in the Diamond Creek area
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You know who killed the elderly couple in Brunswick in 1990? Or you know Fernando Paulino? Or you know who Mr Cruel is?
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Creaul safe house is near a school in Thomastown high st
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100% agree Nick. I understand the point that he wouldn’t risk connecting his work, but I politely disagree. Anyone who does what he does is brazen and will take risks as long as they are calculated and acceptable. I don’t think he necessarily thought anyone would link the sub-stations to his crimes. I think he had access and ID to be in and around those substations so if he got caught at those sites he could just pull his ID and say he was working. I believe he was a maintenance worker in the 80s\90s for one of the main DBs in Victoria. He would have been on a roster and would have had worked or had access to all of those sites related or close to his crime or drop off points. He knew these places like the back of his hand and planned where to drop his victims off so he couldn’t be caught. Someone needs to contact the major DBs in Victoria who operated maintenance on these substations in North and East Melbourne during this period. Retrieve every single worker on their books and do background checks on them and cross reference the photo fit sketch (which ironically was done when someone reported him to the police for snooping around in a substation). Does anyone know how to get in contact with companies who operated at that time to pull the records?
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The FBI profile myth that “Mr Cruel” carried out his four attacks during school holidays (1987-1991) has been shown to badly wrong. The 22 Aug 1987 home invasion was on a Saturday in mid school term 3. The 3 July 1990 Tuesday night abduction took place during a normal school week for virtually ALL schools in Victoria, if not all.
Victorian Police supplied dud information to FBI profilers back in 1991, who are only as good as the material they are given, and their profile reads that there is a high probability the offender is employed with a school. The fact is that NONE of the crime dates remotely suggests school employment. This was pointed out by the Herald Sun newspaper on 17 April 2022.
The first internet site to call out the profile error was Melbourne Marvels way back in 2021, closely followed by this one.
This badly flawed profile was still being extensively quote in the media until 2022. The word is finally out. This profile document is an embarrassment to be avoided.
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who fed the FBI the correct info and why. Was Mr Cruel working on the task force?
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I actually think he is a railway worker. All substations are relatively close to the railways. I know someone who drove the electricians around. I have suspected him for years. He has a wall eye and that mask they depict looks like the person was trying to cover up an eye defect. Drove to work along the road Bung went missing on the morning she went missing. Left over 2 hours early for work. Got to work sn hour late. Tell me it isn’t him. The cops won’t listen. He lived in Preston for a long time but found out when younger he lived in a house under the flight path. All the women in his old area were wary of him. Also their hours are all over the place. Alternating night afternoon snd day shift.
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hey have the police gotten back to you?
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I wonder if missing school girl Boon was also a Mr Cruel victim, and the girl who went missing after visiting dentist (though she is a little bit older than most victims)
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I’ve always thought it could also be Mr cruel.
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That’s interesting, it doesn’t fit with the electrical industry profile however I have always wondered if mr cruel had access to schools via traveling vans that would visit schools all over Victoria back in the 90’s (they still might do I don’t know)
We would have a visit from a few diff types of vans, but one was a dental van.
once or twice a year we would get free check ups etc and anything bigger then a filling would usually be referred to a actual dentist.
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After following case extensively. It is apparent Mr Cruel very cunning and manipulative . For example: some victim’s say they could hear planes flying over house . Could it be he played recording of plane’s? . It is also apparent this person has a personality disorder. It could also be possible two people involved, this regards to moving the children from home to car to place of crime. It also happened at a time child pornography was legal, therefore high probability involved in a ungrounded pornography ring or linked to one. Also high probability linked to Bung Siraboon case. Person either self employed at the time or work for large work place that involves shift work . Person is highly skilled. Someone has too know who Mr Cruel is. Smallest detail is most crucial and this how it be solved
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The split personality theory would match with testimonies saying he was « well-spoken » and others saying he sounded un-educated
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Personally I am more convinced he would play a bit on purpose to further through people off of his trail. If he had a dissociative personality he wouldnt be able to use that to his advantage, if anything it would be a disadvantage
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Creaul didn’t work election company je might be able have some knowledge from school however he didn’t work.
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Had access to guns. Highly manipulative. Would it be possible worked or conducted contract work for police academy in Victoria? Someone in underground crime during 1980s to late 1990’s must know who this person is. Maybe was injured by Karmein thus explains the extereme violent way of death. I live in hope this case is solved and closed.
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I was literally thinking this!
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Go on peter Sylvester’s podcast, there’s an episode where a career criminal on his deathbed told a cop,it was great bookie robber the one who looked Asian, Mr cruel apparently told this crook who he was best mates with
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Agree , highpossibility he was injured . Still have hunch Mr Cruel link to Bung Siraboon
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probably a cop, or cop-related.
would explain his knowledge of forensics (before that was well understood via CSI etc), lack of police leads – and of course, coppers are sick, violent, dangerous people most of the time.
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He used the term “police surgeon “. This is not the language of the common perp but something a cop would say, IMHO.
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MR CRUEL: Definitely a cop. He just yells cop. How can he not be already found. Not saying he might be working on the case but he definitely has access. I mean really electrical substations? Is it really a clue? He definitely is going to be doing again. He’s a SERIAL RAPIST and a MURDERER.
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Yesss!!! He just seems to have the same knowledge as a cop
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Feel like it may be a policeman past or present as he knows quite a lot of info about dna etc.
I believe it’s moorabin location the planes were heard overhead.
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The biggest clue to his identity possibly comes in the first Lower Plenty attack. He asks the victim her name, and then on a number of occasions calls her Kate, Cate. Mr Cruel has made few if any mistakes as evidenced with his crimes never being solved. So why would he make such a mistake. Brian Elkner daughter is named Cate. On his first attack he would have thought it highly unlikely anyone would make a connection to the attacker, the victim and being called the name of his daughter, we know from the physiatrist at his rape trial that Elkner has a gross psychological disturbance that was unlikely to heal. Could that gross physiological disturbance have included sick feelings or worse to his daughter/s which he played out in his fantasy world why attacking and raping. To delve a little deeper, their is a transcript of all the things Mr. fuel said during the Lower Plenty attack. It does not include him calling the girl Kate/Cate. We can then assume he called her this name while playing out his vicious sexual attack on the girl . All part of his disturbed sexual fantasy. Hence this part of his communicstion would not be for public knowledge.
So why The mistake.
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That guy did crimes around Thornbury he is not creul.
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He was so cunning, I can’t help wonder if he used the name Kate to divert attention to Elkner. Did he plan to that extent?
If he did he succeeded, Elk we had been on the Radar since then.
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So back in the early 90’s I went to high school in the eastern suburbs I swear to god i was walking across the main road at the pedestrian lights, something made me look over at the cars stopped at the lights a man in a balaclava and black gloves on, made me look twice he’s dead eyes followed me across the road driving a ford falcon I think about this now and again and thought of this immediately it was a scary time
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Do you remember what time of day, what road/suburb and the colour of the vehicle?
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What was the colour of the vehicle?
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White VK station wagan
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please describe the car plssssssss
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What farther shows his two boys porn and any it’s there mother then he kills her now his in jail for25 ears his poor boy appeared in court his yelling at Daniel he was in the western suburbs at the time he killed his wife.
He claims he wants out of jail dead or alive once police interview him he will try to kill him self
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Somebody knows who cruel is. Please to this person who does know, please call crime stoppers.
I’ve followed this case for 30 years, I just hate cruel so much. To this day I still check and lock my doors and windows to be sure they are locked.
I suggest to investigators:
1. If power stations involved surly police can go visit all companies and look for likenesses and who completed jobs in areas at these time frames, def match to person seen filming the victims house this is significant.
2. Had to have done significant surveillance and he must have photos and videos of these homes in possession of someone must have seen.
3. Bung I’m sure is also a victim of cruel.
4. Have investigators gone on dark web looking for old child pornography there must be something out there
6. Looking at sex offenders in past 15 years and look to see likelihood of electrical work and or look alike in old photos etc.
7. Bayside attacks I’m also sure are cruel. But I feel this is where his parents live and maybe out of town or other or visiting during these attacks but he does not live there.
8. Based on above maybe Moorabbin airport may have been more likely?
One small piece of evidence will catch you cruel. You already made the mistake. The answer is in the case file.They are coming for you.
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disagree on the bung case…doesn’t fit the mo of cruel…
odds on he was a taxi driver… able to cruise around at odd hours without raising suspicion…
and i would suggest he’s no longer alive…
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I think Bung was taken into a house, so a local. She lived so close to the school and not a scream was heard. I have the same theory with Rhianna Barreau, it was a local
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What colour was the Ford falcon?
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White
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Maybe a family member that when hiring a video camera in the late 80’s he knew how to use it even though he says he never had one. Maybe an uncle who when you as a kid says the boogie man he gets paranoid and wants to know why you said that then is happy your not accusing him . Or a family member who always talks about DNA when it first came out. Or maybe another uncle who is not blood brother thinks he is Mr cruel but can’t say anything and knows it’s him and says he lives in the right spot. And an uncle that stopped using words after evedence came out how he spoke. And someone who keeps getting different cars. My other uncle said . And an uncle that’s is so dam close to your parents no one could ever tell them .
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Hello, I have personally met Mr.Cruel. I am one of his closest family members. I know exactly where he lives And I just saw him a few weeks ago.
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What?
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Go on, tell us more
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Norman lee, is mr cruel, I do believe. You need to look at pictures, even a witness described him. He died in a robbery in 1992, there is no attacks after that year. They need to investigate more of a timeline for him. That’s who I think it is,
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good point but in he died who was hes age?
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it’s not Norman Lee. That story is a convenient way to close the case. Blame a dead man with absolutely no evidence with a deathbed confession from an informant that was impossible to confirm.
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although it’s believed that he accessed the victims’ houses due to the flight paths does anyone think he could’ve accessed them because of the electrical substations whether it be his knowledge of where they were from research or if he was an employee of sorts that went around from each one which could explain his familiarity with them especially when he allegedly was looking over one of his victims’ fence who just happened to live on land that was taken up by some transmission towers and was caught by the victim’s brothers only to then hide instantly bcuz he knew hed been seen
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Imagine… if this could’ve been Karmein Chans killer! You never know!
Between 1990-1993 (I was 10-13 years old) I remember walking down the road I lived on, with a car slowly tailing behind. It was a busy road but I still noticed a man behind the steering wheel watching me. That night, approx between 11pm-1am, I was lying in my bed, awake still, and I heard a noise outside my bedroom window, then I clearly heard someone taking off the window mesh on my window. When I finally realised what the sound actually was, I screamed out to my mum, who was in the lounge room, watching tv. She ran into my room, and the person fled. I don’t remember much else but the next morning we inspected the window and the aluminium frame was bent with the corner hanging out and the mesh had a slash, as though it was big enough to stick your hand in and attempt to see if the window would slide open. Which it does. Our windows were very easy to break in. That day my mum was so scared she ordered our roller shutters to be installed, immediately. And this is why we had roller shutters. We lived opposite a street.. very easy to park there and stalk the house. And my room, right there at the front. You could easily see me at night with my bedroom light on. Ohh those days with those horrible blinds we used to have. You could see everything from outside.
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im so sorry, it must have been scary for you.
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Very similar happened to me I was also approx 11. I lived in the Melton area at the time.
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Sorry to hear that. Did they ever catch the guy?
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What suburb was this? Can you remember what the man looked like.
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To the person asking about where to report, my best guess would be: https://crimestoppers.com.au/
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Part of me feels like he’s a dentist/child dentist? Or some sort of medical professional? He knew to have them brush their teeth and he knew to have the girls clean under their nails which is a sterile practice.
He mentions knowing about police surgeons at one point too. There was mention of a girl going missing after visiting a dentist even though she was older.
What really clicked for me was the amount of times he used surgical tape to bind people. Just a very specific and odd kind of tape to use in those crimes.
Thoughts??
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Could he have just been a big consumer of TV crime shows and learnt about some of the practices from that?
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Dude this guy had guns and knew how police operate….you don’t learn that on TV as TV is bullsh. This guy had a background in crime possibly burglary, he liked stealing and successfully invading. You don’t learn that from a TV but you learn all sorts of effective things from other criminals because they DON’T want to be in jail! I mean like Duh….
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There’s a thread on reddit about someone who believes their stepfather or stepbrother was/were mr cruel
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Do you have a link to the thread?
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We need to go deeper into this and find details of him that lower the field of who it is. There is a couple things left out here that i would like to note, the way he talks and the audience he targets hints toward him being a child therapist, is there anyone here who by chance would be able to check the medical records of the kids.
I have reasons for assuming that he is a child therapist, the wording he uses in what he has left behind hints toward a job like a child therapist or dentist but I think therapist makes more sense, not to mention almost all his victims are girls, and as study shows girls at a young age are more likely to cave in when faced with adversity or bullying, exactly why i would like to see the medical records of the girls to narrow this down.
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My theory is he is either:
1. Had a job as cleaner or something along the lines that have something to do with cleaning since he was meticulous and maybe was a true crime buff.
Reasoning for the true crime buff. He had similarities to the golden state killer with the break ins, the disguises, hanging around longer than needed, talking to himself and tied up other family members.
At the time, accessing to true crime stories would’ve been more difficult with limited access to internet in the late 80s/early 90s. So possibly a subscription to a magazine?
But this leads to something else…like everyone I also think he was highly likely a cop also or in the same industry.
So if he wasn’t a true crime buff and was a cop he would know about the infamous Golden state killer and how the authorities back then reached out to authorities here in OZ about whether Deangelo had moved to Oz.
They found out he didn’t. Another coincidence, is DeAngelo stopped his crimes around the mid 80s, which is also around the time DNA testing was in its infancy and Mr Cruel may have known about what investigators look for and all the potential things they could for in future. He may have picked out what DeAngelo did wrong and how he could do one better.
I think, he could’ve rented the house with the flight path for a short period and may have been frugal with his living making it easier to move.
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im thinking cab driver…
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Why do you think cab driver?
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because he had the ability to seemingly stalk his victims without ever raising suspicions…
i also suggest a connection to the parents…
but yeah he removed victims from thier homes at early times of the morning and that says he could blend in… 1 victim said he had trouble starting his car and that also fits the taxi possibility…
back then anyone could drive a taxi…no checks…
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I also think the Mr C was possibly in law enforcement, and became aware of the EARONS’ work as a result.
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I was his wife’s mottheers house later in years he killed his wife he didn’t work he separated from his wife her peranys I believe had died which left 2 boys hs in jail doing 25 years for murder
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In 1991 I was going to a high school in outer eastern melb. I was in year 7. About halfwY through the year I was outside with my friends when a substitute teacher I had had a few times came up to me and asked to speak to me. He led me away and then proceeded to tell me he wanted my body and that I should come home with him etc etc. Of course this upset me Nd I left to find the principle to tell him what happened. Over the next few days he rang my house a few times to try and apologise and he was also spotted on my street corner ..obviously waiting for me to return home from school.
I’m not sure if police were ever contacted but I remember he didn’t teach at my school after that..
I feel like the whole incident wasn’t taken seriously and if that was to happen these days it would be alot different.
AnywY this teacher looks exactly like the recently released sketch of the guy that was found looking over the fence.
I did ring crimestoppers but they from them or the aurthorities.
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Any chance you could share the initial of the last name for this teacher?
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Hi there, have emailed you – not sure if OP will see your question or not.
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The initial of his surname is F.
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I am sorry to hear that your a victim go and report it to police this shouldn’t have happen to you these creaps out there shouldn’t be in our schools however you should report it at a police station remember your a victim of this offence good luck god bless you
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Paulino is creaul and his in jail for murder he killed his wife in Reservoir safe house was his mother laws
Now it’s up to police to close in on however once he know he will try killing himself in jail
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is a father and son living in thornbury the father matches the picture when i was 6 years old we went there for Christmas 1986 his eyes were dark brown he dressed up as Santa so all the kids there sat on his knee and they took pictures of us he put them all on his dresser in his room that’s why he placed a blanket over the dresser and his son lived in a bungalow at the back of the house its right around the corner from the Electric sub station and he works as a electrician
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i feel as if mr cruel had children of his own, the way he bathed the two kids.
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also, could mr. cruel also have hacked radio station’s? just a theory.
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MR CRUEL AND RAIL LINES
Does anyone else notice how close many of the Mr Cruel crime sites or potential crime sites are to rail lines? These can be operating, closed, planned, or even ride on models.
For instance: 27 Dec 1988. Sharon Wills’ home is near Heatherdale Railway Station. Released near the railway line on 28 Dec 1988 in Bayswater.
Nicola Lynas, previous Margaret St, Canterbury address, near railway line and Chatham Station.
3 July 1990, Nicola Lynas’ new residence at Monomeath Av, short walk to either Canterbury or East Camberwell Railway Station. Released on 6 July 1990 near the old Willsmere Railway station, closed in the 1890s, on the Outer Circle line. Incidentally, this Station was named after a farm owned by another Wills family.
13 April 1991, Karmein Chan’s home just north of the then planned Doncaster railway line.
Chan family restaurant in Eltham, just across the road from the Diamond Valley Miniature Railway in Eltham Lower Park.
9 April 1992, victim’s murdered remains found relatively near the Keon Park Railway Station & train line.
PLC, where 2 of the victims attended sited on a tram line.
Antonio Park Primary School, where Sharon Wills attended, also near a train line.
The offender seems associated to things railway / tram line. He may not be quite as “highly mobile” as the FBI profile states. Perhaps that’s the reason for the “stolen cars”?
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Whoever he was he was a skilled burglar and it is likely he began as a burglar and was at first an opportunist offender. His attacks seemed to have begun in 1985 in a different area so the geographical profile that is based on the known canonical attacks is obviously wrong as is the FBI profile. This is a theme in this case as the FBI was presented with incorrect information regarding the school holidays by VICPOL. He had some tactical awareness and was confident enough to attack a family and take breaks during the crime even making a meal and it is likely it is one of these earlier attacks that holds the key. If the correct information was provided to both the FBI and geographical profiler it may highlight a profession and likely area of importance to the offender previously not explored. The misinformation in the case as highlighted on this site and Melbourne Marvels highlights incorrect information being given to the public as well as other law enforcement agencies. The use of simple chronology of suspected attacks and their geographical area as well as a clarification in the suspects height and build could be used to develop a physical model using computer modelling. It is likely he is still involved in online pornography and may have a petty criminal record for break and enter or selling stolen goods, snowdropping, prowling etc that may predate the offences and it is likely he has an occupation that allows him some freedom of movement particularly during weekdays which may be his weekend. This case is still solvable but the police need to provide more detailed evidence and release an approximate age build etc. They should also release any information that may help identify the attacker particularly things they have deliberately withheld as the passage of time means it is less likely that that evidence will lead to a conviction and they could be assisted by individuals and groups interested in this subject like this and other websites. The victims deserve justice and this person has forfeited the right to walk among us.
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Yours is about the only good assessment I’ve read so far of the hundreds. Definitely started via burglaries and petty crime. Not sure I agree with his deep sexual wants making him easy to trace…..this guy is very paranoid and doesn’t want to go inside…..possibly because he already did a short stint there? But I agree this is the path…..most folks are just guessing rather than thinking deeply. Cheers
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The above post by Ben 21 June 2023 is a thoughtful addition to the discussion.
On the surface some sort of police / forensic connection is highly possible … to the point where police have an almost pathological fear the offender is one of their own. Don’t expect police any time soon to own up to the Vic Pol-FBI profile error re. the incorrect claim that all linked attacks from 1987-91 took place during school holidays. For starters the 3 July 1990 abduction took place on a Tuesday night during a normal school week for virtually ALL Victorian school, state, private and Catholic.
Another organisation that has an almost hysterical fear that the offender may be one of their own is the Presbyterian Church and related organisations, and to a lesser degree, Uniting Churches.
The evidence for this is mainly circumstantial i.e. the last 2 kidnap victims attended the same Presbyterian girls’ school.
Things “Presbyterian” are quite close to a number of crime sites in a way that, say, Catholic churches and school are not.
Nicola Lynas’ previous address near Catham Railway Station was near to St Andrews Presbyterian Primary School (since closed down). Her family shifted to Monomeath Av Canterbury not far from an almost Cathedral sized Presbyterian Church.
She was released not far from a former Presbyterian church, now a kindergarten.
Karmein Chan lived not far from a Presbyterian meeting place used for church services, erroneously listed in street directories as a church in a location where it did not exist. They met in a state school.
In cemeteries a number of Presbyterian grave yard sections are closest to crime sites or are the best vantage points for the offender to carry out surveillance.
Church Roads or Streets figure in or near a number of crime sites.
Police are sitting on a 60-70 page document linking the literary works of a former PLC student to the offender. The former student when 13 fell head over heels in love with a Presbyterian minister aged about 28. (Nothing too intimate, just alarming … held hands on the church steps in the dark, buggy rides in the bush, dancing in the church hall). Note the offender abducted two Presbyterian female students aged 13.
There is a mountain of material that police could release, and it is not doing any good gathering dust 30 plus years after the Mr Cruel cold case crimes.
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GRAFFITI ON THE CAR … SEEING WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE
There probably should be an award for the most ridiculous Mr Cruel suspect theory.
I nominate the “Mr Cruel was a KGB Agent” theory. And I wish I was making this up but a Spanish language YT video commenter is convinced. And with 27,000 people of interest, there’s sure to be at least one suspected spy. And apparently this KGB agent used the very same gun on Mr Cruel’s last known Australian murder victim on a kidnapped Spanish girl years later according to that Spanish speaker. Incredible!
So let’s suspend belief and see if we can conjure up some Australian evidence for our KGB suspect.
Take the graffiti on the last victim’s family car. It reads: “Pay-back [over 2 lines] Asian drug dealer” on the front. “Anon” and then, “More, more to come”, on the side. All letters are in capitals.
Now if we replace the English letters with corresponding Russian ones, mainly for the sounds, we get:
“Пай-бак Асеан друг деалер [or: дилер]” — “Анон … Море, море то коме”
And we should end up with absolute gobbledygook, yes? Well, not quite. We get:
“Share-[water] tank Asean [Asian] friend dealer” and “Anon … Ocean that coma”.
The TO in Russian is a conjunction that means a heap of things.
Hmm, obviously code for something, especially as water related topics get mentioned on 2 sides of the car.
Why am I telling you any of this? Because we have people out there claiming the graffiti on the car hides a reference to suspects Brian Elkner or Norman Lee, or the front of the car has a hidden partial anagram mentioning the Presbyterian Ladies College.
The graffiti has become some sort of Rorschach ink blot test where people seem to find what they want to see. But without additional information, i.e. a certain prime suspect ran a course on how to hide your name in graffiti, such speculation is probably not helpful and is more likely to annoy law enforcement than anything else.
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Can someone please give me a detailed list if the items he stole? Every little, small detail or items he took?
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Can someone write a full list if items he stole from the houses? Trophies
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MR CRUEL’S USE OF “ANON”
There is a fierce debate as to whether Mr Cruel when he wrote ANON on the side of the last victim’s family car meant, either “soon” as in see you anon, or whether it was an abbreviation of anonymous.
The media and police probably think it the latter, but some of those pushing the idea that the prime suspect, a former university lecturer, wrote this are claiming it an unusual word that only an academic would use, are being disingenuous.
Anon as a stand-alone word meaning soon, is unusual, but hardly rare. For those born before the era of bowdlerised children’s books, i.e. 1980s, the word anon featured in such classics as Alice In Wonderland; Peter Pan; Wind In The Willows, etc.
For adults, popular authors such as Mark Twain and the Brontë sisters, among others, used the word anon in their literary works.
And for those who went to churches where the King James Edition of the Bible was read out, anon appears in 2 of the gospels.
A reddit post claims Laurel and Hardy used the word anon in one of their movies as in “I will see you anon”.
The Batman 1960s TV show featured the word in an episode with the villain, The Archer.
Yes, the word is a tad old-fashioned, archaic even, portentous maybe, faux educated perhaps, but it was in use in the quiet country working class town I came from in the 60s.
So let’s not kid ourselves that the word anon is only someone with a tertiary education would have used. Or understood !!
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LAST WORD ON ANON(YMOUS)
Logic dictates that the offender meant anonymous when writing ANON on the victim’s family car. He wrote ANON M, in a similar style, then stopped, and wrote MORE, [M]ORE TO COME, (around ANON M) in much thicker lettering. It appears he meant to write ANONYMOUS but then had a doubt about the spelling. If true, it shows a nimbleness of mind to turn ANON M into MORE, MORE TO COME.
Of course if he had put a full stop after ANON. it would have truly highlighted being well-read, and the offender was not going to make it easy for anyone in the police; media or citizen sleuths. Besides most people accept that ANON can be an abbreviation of anonymous.
The problem is that ANON is not only common in English but the first 4 letters or sounds are common in an inordinate number of languages.
For instance, someone suggested the term “Bozo” used by the offender, sounded similar to a Georgian curse (as in “Bitch”). An unlikely connection, but the word for anonymous in Georgian is ანონიმური pronounced anonimuri. And an educated Georgian would guess that the ANON bit meant anonymous. Besides in the days of Soviet / Russian domination, the Russian AHOH (anon) was accepted as an abbreviation for anonymous.
You’d need a lot more evidence to suggest Mr Cruel came from the same place as Jo Stalin, but it highlights a problem here in that ANON would be recognisable in many languages and alphabets.
It seems the Greeks of Athens invented Anon(ymous) when their city got past 30,000 inhabitants after 400 BC. When Rome was still around 7,500, in 350 BC there was no need for the concept, but with rapid growth, they adopted the idea and that’s why all Latin derived languages like French, Spanish, Italian, Romanian, etc, have variations on ANON (followed by one or two syllables) etc, today.
The idea of ANON(etc) was taken up by German and Scandinavian peoples. And then by Slavic people from Bulgarians to Russians and then by all former republics in the old Russian empire.
Non Indo-European languages like Finnish, Estonian, Yiddish, Basque, Turkish etc., also adopted ANON(etc), as have Asian languages like Tagalog (Philippines) and Indonesian.
In Ancient Northern India, the Greeks probably introduced ANON(etc) into Sanskrit after 300 BC and Alexander the Great, of which an echo maybe found in modern Hindi, i.e. अनामिकता (anamikata) (or anāmikatā, anaamikataa) meaning anonymity.
All this of course simply means those pontificating about ANON written on the side of the car 🚗 are probably wasting their time trying to solely link the word to the prime suspect.
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HOW THE MEDIA CONTRIBUTED TO A MR CRUEL PUBLIC RECORD MISTAKE
When Karmein Chan was kidnapped at night on 13 April 1991, the following day police correctly told journalists what exactly was was graffitied on the front of the victim’s family car, i.e. “Payback Asian drug dealer”. “Payback” was written over two lines as in PAY-BACK.
All major Melbourne and Sydney newspapers correctly reported this graffiti as “payback” on 15 April 1991 as did the South China Morning Post on 18 April 1991. Reporter Jo Oliphant got it right their Adelaide article but another interstate newspaper mistranscribed Oliphant’s payback as “pay back”. It hardly matters as both major Melbourne newspapers for years correctly wrote the word “payback”.
But on 1 April 2001, in Melbourne’s The Age, crime journalist John Silvester erroneously used the word “pay back”. He repeated the mistake in the same newspaper on 15 December 2010, and in two books he co-wrote with Andrew Rule: Underbelly 5, in 2001; and Rats in 2006.
Since then an inordinate number of crime writers have repeated the error: Keith Moor in Mugshots 2003; Paul Anderson 2003; Larry Writer 2008; Alan Whiticker 2009 and those contributing to internet articles like James Hearn, etc.
For those who think this hardly matters the story has evolved from one of revenge (as in “payback”) to one suggesting the victim’s father, John Chan, was involved in the drug trade (as in “pay back” money owed).
Silvester notes a police report said Chan was “lightly questioned” regarding his financial dealings. This suggests police should have probed further. Silvester also repeated remarks in a police report that like many in the restaurant industry Chan had a wide variety of associates, some of whom, apparently unbeknown to him, had criminal connections.
At least Silvester was a bit circumspect. Many internet and YT comment posts state that Mr Chan had drug debts or gambling debts, but when challenged they can’t name the type of drugs or the form of gambling !!
One thing that is accepted is John Chan speculated on property, hardly a criminal activity, and got caught out in a property downturn and the collapse of his family’s restaurant business.
Silvester’s original 2001 error can probably be traced back to the photo of the graffiti on the car. It was taken at an angle. The all-important hyphen cannot be seen.
The original taskforce and journalists in 1991 had access to this information, but much later those, including some police, researchers and journalists, never saw the original front-on photo of the car 🚘 .
Hence it is now PAY BACK on the public record and not PAYBACK.
And speaking of the hyphen, this and a comma and unusual word (ANON) in the graffiti, convinced police and FBI profilers that the offender was well-read, and if not intelligent, wanted to be seen as such.
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Mr Cruel was a school teacher in Melbourne by the name Trevor. He enjoyed surfing and skiing 89 to the 90’s He changed his name by dipole and has a brother who still lives in Melbourne. Trevor moved to Canada after being very anxious police were on his trail. He is a person with several different personalities from charming, shy, highly intelligent and angry loud looking dark and extremely quick moving. Trevor (his real name) could not stop organising and planning details. Trevor prided himself on looking like JFK jr.
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Some promising information here and interesting circumstantial evidence, if accurate.
As a matter of interest what type of teacher was “Trevor” i.e. primary, secondary, State, Private or Catholic? Was he full-time or part-time?
Did he play tennis and / or chess? (Some in the media and police think that the latter is a possibility). Any idea what his favourite reading material was (as police profiles claim he was “well-read”)?
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What makes me wonder is that he appears to be a controlled person. He was careful not to leave any DNA at the crime scenes. I read that he even had a meal and a shower during one of the raids, which makes me think that he didn’t feel nervous or anxious about what he was doing.
The profile was of someone who mastered what he was doing and did it well. He also had control over his impulses, acting carefully to satisfy his desires, or perhaps he was involved in some pedophile network that provided support. I don’t know, has anyone ever considered the idea of him not acting alone?
Now, how could someone like that take the life of a child with three shots to the head? It seems too much for me. I can’t imagine someone in control acting like that. Maybe the girl irritated him or saw his face. Maybe that made him stop committing crimes.
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The secret is to figure out how he could know his way around the house. How he could know which sock drawer to open without asking the girls. It is obvious when you know how and why he could tell the girls ‘exactly’ what would happen to them when they were returned home. He didn’t have to guess.
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Mr Cruel has links with peadophile rings surely. He probably sold child pornography and worked in the medical field or Police force. Federal police officer perhaps. Is he in jail?
I suspect the police know who he is and they also know he belongs to a highly organised peado ring. Did the parents of these girls have links to criminal/peado circles?
Strange in all this time nobody knows anything much at all unless they are covering up for Mr Cruel who may also be different men using same methods. Yep plenty of cover ups and such convenient red herrings.
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Yes he did, everything you said is correct. I know EXACTLY who Mr.Cruel is. He is one of my family members and he now
Lives with me. He is still alive and living with me.
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In my opinion Mr Cruel is a former Victorian detective who was stationed in Northcote during the times of offending.
He is methodical, obsessive compulsive and has sexual dysfunction. He probably had a wife and kids, and needed to stop offending due to work and family commitments.
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Could be. Got more info?
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Wont publish the name just yet. What reason do you have to suspect him?
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Mr Cruel is a psychopath primarily and a sex offender secondarily. He is extremely similar to DeAngelo whose motivation was not primarily sexual. Deangelo also turned off his offending like Mr. Cruel. The Victorian police are looking for a primary sex offender and while they persist with this line, I doubt he will be identified.
Look at all the false leads he left. Literally playing a game with investigators. Nicola Lynas gives great clues in the way Mr Cruel revelled while reading the Newspaper. To keep Nicola for 50 hours is not about the sexual offending, it is about the joy he receives from fooling everyone and creating an unsolved crime that rocks everyone to their core. Nicola is but a tool for achieving this aim.
Mr cruel is primarily a Narcissistic psychopath. Psychopaths will tend to involve themselves in the case. They continue to get enjoyment out of fooling everyone. Everything points to this being an experienced police officer. His motive is to outsmart his colleagues and prove his intellectual superiority. A true Narcissist.
I have also independently identified an ex Northcote police detective who have involved themselves in the case despite not being a member of the taskforce. I don’t know what his motives are for doing this but clearly his involvement needs to be scrutinised to see whether the input is part of the continued offending.
This person is literally hiding in plain sight. I have made contact with investigators with no response yet. I think a change in focus is needed if this will ever be solved.
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https://9now.nine.com.au/under-investigation/under-investigation-mr-cruel-breakthrough-witness-sighting-ringwood-melbourne/61f52e20-5d0c-436e-86dc-6d42f7eccc3d
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Is it possible that Mr Cruel is Andrew Garforth who killed Ebony Simpson? The careful stalking of school children and washing away of forensic evidence is very similar
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Andrew Garforth was an opportunist and not very bright and was easily identified. Mr Cruel is highly intelligent.
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It boggles me that not a mention of contacting some of the Pyschics the FBI have used to develop info or insight on this Unsub.
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sociopathic narcissist that’s what mr cruel is.
hope this case gets solved in time
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The description of the Pistol (.22) sounds very much like the ones that were kept to guard cash at every Railway Station across Melbourne and accessible to all station staff and carried by Railway Police (RIO)
RIOs regularly patrolled railway land at all hours in various vehicles and would have gone un noticed.
Just a thought
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are you sure they recovered the bullets? Was Carmein Chan found at the location she was murdered. Never been disclosed by the Police
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I truly don’t think this would work now, but check all the houses in the area of where he is suspected to have lived and then from the victims description of his home, see which house resembles their description the most. Just go door to door and see.
this would have worked for sure in the 80s (I really don’t know I’m 13 bro this is the best I could come up with)
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With the differences in descriptions from the 2 first and the last one I’m thinking it might have been two different persons.
The first offender being a bit taller, slender with a job that doesn’t involve manual labour. The second offender being stockier, smaller in height and with a manual labour job (rough patches on the hands = callouses).
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Could he be Gary Dale Cox? Similar cases in Houston Texas.
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